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Arrest Sarah Palin now!

I am not being reactionary. I am not kidding, or exaggerating, when I say that Sarah Palin and anyone else calling themselves a member of the Tea Party needs to be arrested under whatever Homeland Security act needs to be invoked. They have taken the right to free speech too far. Just as you cannot shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater (unless there really is a fire), you should not be allowed to call for elected representatives of the United States (or any country, for that matter) to be assassinated. Arrest Sarah Palin and anyone else influential who has said - on TV, radio, or even their personal blogs or Twitters - that people should use violence against people who do not agree with them. This is not what politics in the USA should be like.

It is such a double standard, too! In the first place, anyone not a talking head who says someone like the President should be assassinated, the secret service takes them away and they disappear forever. And if Democrats had been acting like Sarah Palin has been acting, saying what she's been saying, during Bush's regime, there would have been mass arrests; lots of Democrats and others would have vanished into Guantanimo Bay never to be seen or heard from again. In fact, I'm wondering if Bush and Cheney were hoping such a thing would happen. And now the shoe's on the other foot, the Repugnantcans are possibly trying to goad us into the same.

Well I say FINE. If they want to go to Guantanimo so badly, then let's do it. I am not kidding or exaggerating. They have been publicly calling for the assassination of President Obama and others just because they're sore about losing, and because they're hateful racist bastards who can't think of any other way to make their fucked-up ideals come to power. And you know what? Whether they get arrested or not, I hope to all the Gods and Goddesses there are that it completely backfires on them. That the few decent people left in the Republican party kick the tea partiers out on their asses, and clean up the Republican party or remake it. Because so far, all they're doing is proving that those who voted for Obama and other Democrats are right.

I hate that our choices in this country are between spineless but optimistic pushovers, and playground bullies with guns. I hate what has become of this country.

The founding fathers were right. Democracies are a bad idea. USA was never intended to be a democracy, it's supposed to be a republic. And for the last decade, both sides have been showing the world just how bad democracy can be.

Crossposted from http://fayanora.dreamwidth.org

Comments

( 15 comments — Leave a comment )
underlankers
Jan. 10th, 2011 01:16 pm (UTC)
The Founders were 18th Century slaveowning oligarchs. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking they would have approved of anything anyone in the present day does. And in today's time the formerly meaningful definition between democracy and republic is also meaningless.
baron_waste
Jan. 10th, 2011 03:15 pm (UTC)

Here - will this do?

Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That if any person shall write, print, utter or publish, or shall cause or procure to be written, printed, uttered or published, or shall knowingly and willingly assist or aid in writing, printing, uttering or publishing any false, scandalous and malicious writing or writings against the government of the United States, or either house of the Congress of the United States, or the President of the United States, with intent to defame the said government, or either house of the said Congress, or the said President, or to bring them, or either of them, into contempt or disrepute; or to excite against them, or either or any of them, the hatred of the good people of the United States, or to stir up sedition within the United States, or to excite any unlawful combinations therein, for opposing or resisting any law of the United States, or any act of the President of the United States, done in pursuance of any such law, or of the powers in him vested by the constitution of the United States, or to resist, oppose, or defeat any such law or act, or to aid, encourage or abet any hostile designs of any foreign nation against the United States, their people or government, then such person, being thereof convicted before any court of the United States having jurisdiction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars, and by imprisonment not exceeding two years…

Pity the Alien and Sedition Act expired in 1801. Since then, no one has QUITE YET managed to put in place the mechanism by which those who speak against The People (or their self-appointed representatives, rather) are subject to summary arrest.

The ones who want the expression of contrary views made a punishable crime - from Richard Nixon to “Women's Studies” majors - are not nice people.

“A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.” - Adlai Stevenson

fayanora
Jan. 10th, 2011 03:22 pm (UTC)
I'm not talking about making contrary views a punishable crime! Goddamn it, I hate it when people just skim my entries. I'm talking about the people who are calling for the murder of elected representatives to be imprisoned for their violent words!
baron_waste
Jan. 10th, 2011 04:12 pm (UTC)

to be imprisoned for their violent words!

Not in THIS country, thank you. Words are not violence. Defamation of character is one thing; what you're talking is something else. Saying, “You have an unnaturally intimate relationship with your dog,” is slander. Slander is a civil offense - not a criminal one. Saying, “Somebody oughta punch your lights out,” does not constitute a criminal act of any kind. Actually punching your lights out, is a criminal act. If there is no act, there is no crime.

Violence is punishable. Words are not violence. Words are not punishable. Not in THIS country.

- Oh, to be sure you'll always find people who want that changed. Richard Nixon did not see war protestors as exercising their constitutional right of free speech and free assembly; he saw them as criminals who should be regarded and treated as such. Militant feminists on university campuses have sought diligently to have any criticism of feminist goals and methods classed as “hate speech,” and punished accordingly.

Indeed the entire concept of regarding words as criminal acts of violence in themselves - “verbal assault” - began with radical feminists, who sought to stifle debates they knew they couldn't win and to attack men who had done nothing wrong, but who were counterrevolutionary kulaks and “class oppressors” anyway. The resulting distortion of jurisprudence and due process is an ugly destructive mess.

No - leave liberty alone. You might want it yourself someday.

underlankers
Jan. 11th, 2011 01:27 am (UTC)
Actually it began with the Slave Power, which censored abolitionists, lynched the ones not intimidated by jail for the crime of speaking out against the Peculiar Institution, and who went so far as to pass a Gag Rule in Congress to present debate. To Slave Power advocates merely proposing the freedom of the black man was equivalent to giving their nuts a hard squeeze with a spiked iron glove. Blaming that on feminists is a "WTF" moment that makes me hope you're joking here.
baron_waste
Jan. 11th, 2011 04:07 am (UTC)

This merely reinforces my contention, that those who declare words to be crimes are not nice people. No, the “dissent is hate speech” business is no joke; FIRE has been keeping an eye on it. People do what they can get away with, especially to gain political power.

“Political Correctness: The bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people.” (with apologies to Oscar Wilde)

kengr
Jan. 11th, 2011 02:16 am (UTC)
Sorry, but you are wroing on several points. Freedom of speech does *not* mean you can say what you want without consequences.

Slander and libel don't restrict free speech. Rather they impose *consequences* for speech that damages another person.

Likewise, "inciting to riot" laws exist. They don't punish you for saying what you said. They punish you for the *foreseeable results* of what you said.

So, claiming that you are exercising your free speech when any reasonably intelligent person would have realized that your rhetoric was going to result in someone *actually* trying to kill people shouldn't get you off the hook either.

If nothing else, I hope that the survivors and the families of the dead file civil suits for damages against Palin and others.
baron_waste
Jan. 11th, 2011 04:11 am (UTC)

Good luck proving a connection.

“They talked about guns! He used a gun! Ergo - ”

“Get out of my courtroom.”

kengr
Jan. 11th, 2011 06:17 pm (UTC)
It's been done in the past. If there's a lot of evidence that the guy was influenced by *particular* persons/sites, then something can be done. If it's too generalized, it gets difficult.

Apparently there's some evidence already pointing at a couple of groups (*not* Palin) as being where he got a lot of his ideas from.
(Deleted comment)
underlankers
Jan. 10th, 2011 10:01 pm (UTC)
Piffle. We haven't even got to the 1960s yet, and the gulf between now and the 1860s is on par with Valles Marineris. We keep pretending the spree killings don't matter and sooner or later we'll have another John Brown-type escalate shit to a full-fledged Civil War. There's still a huge gulf to the State Terror-"Massive Resistance" of the 1960s as yet that we haven't crossed.
princemuchao
Jan. 10th, 2011 10:32 pm (UTC)
Arresting people for what they say is EXACTLY what this country needs right now!
kengr
Jan. 11th, 2011 02:24 am (UTC)
How about for the *foreseeable results* of what they say?

Ever hear of "inciting to riot"?

You *can* be arrested for the *results* of your free speech.
princemuchao
Jan. 11th, 2011 02:32 am (UTC)
You *can* be beaten and incarcerated by police for "resisting arrest" as well. At this point, I do not trust anyone in authority's opinion about what speech should or should not be allowed. I don't care if they have a D or an R next to their name - they are all corrupt, murdering thugs in my eyes.

Instead of getting fired up about a couple of Americans biting a crazy's bullet, stop and think for a second about how many children are dying every day in Afghanistan and Iraq, and how many freedoms we have already lost after overreacting to a tragic event.
kengr
Jan. 11th, 2011 06:19 pm (UTC)
There's this thing called a *trial*. Which involves a *jury*. That makes it a lot harder for someone " in authority" to railroad folks.

And yes, we've lost a lot of freedoms due to the panic and fear.

But keep in mind that this is not talking about forbidding speech. It's talking about being held accountable for foreseeable *results* of the speech. Not the same thing.
kengr
Jan. 11th, 2011 02:22 am (UTC)
Actually, you don't get arrested just for making a crack about killing the President. Back in the 80s a friend made that sort of crack fairly often and a "friend" who was pissed at him reported him to the Secret Service.

He and a number of folks who knew him got visits from the Secret Service. And once they determined that it was just somebody blowing off steam, they asked him if he had any idea who might have sent in the anonymous tip. He did and told them so. Apparently some simple checking confirmed it (they never told him, but it seems likely given what happened next).

Shortly after their talk with my friend, the Secret Service visited the ex-friend who was suspected of sending in the tip. And apparently they made their view about people wasting their time *very* clear. Jail time was mentioned.

ps. Under the Patriot Act and related laws, they can *already* just grab you and throw away the key.
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